Msg#: 917 *INTERSHOP* 01-06-94 10:16:00 From: JOERG SASSE To: ALL Subj: STILL CONNECTED? no message here since nov, 14th?? Are we still connectet?? Please reply. --- * Origin: THE THING DUESSELDORF [+49 211-9913642] (42:1002/2) Msg#: 974 *INTERSHOP* 01-10-94 15:19:21 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: JOERG SASSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 917 (STILL CONNECTED?) We are still connected, however all theory activity has shifted to Symposia. You know these dynamics...people just flock to where the action is. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The Thing - New York City (42:1001/1) Msg#: 1051 *INTERSHOP* 01-09-94 22:33:00 From: ULRICH SCHROETER To: JOERG SASSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 974 (STILL CONNECTED?) > no message here since nov, 14th?? Are we still connectet?? Please reply. 42:1002/4 connected .... regards, uli 8-) --- * Origin: AMBROSIA - ThingNet Frankfurt - 63067 Offenbach/M. (42:1002/4) Msg#: 1063 *INTERSHOP* 01-13-94 09:37:15 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: FRANK KRUSE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1056 (MUSIC&SPEED) ** Message forwarded by SYSOP at 11:35:44 on 01-14-94 ** Please use this forum for music and cross cultural issues. If there is continued interest we will install a music forum. [Original Message Follows] Actually, I haven't been following his work all that much lately. I was talking about Spillane, the Ennio Morricone (sp?) cd, etc. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The Thing - New York City (42:1001/1) Msg#: 1068 *INTERSHOP* 01-13-94 11:41:31 From: DANIEL GEORGES To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1020 (HELLO HELLO) Please tell me a little about MOO and where I can find out more. I saw a message about Post Modern Culture, but that is the extent of my exposure. thanks. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The Thing - New York City (42:1001/1) <*>Replies Msg#: 1081 *INTERSHOP* 01-14-94 02:36:06 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: DANIEL GEORGES (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1068 (HELLO HELLO) I just wasted 2 hours in one...they're fun. Perhaps we should try to set one up here. The PMC-MOO is at hero.village.virginia.edu 7777. Watch out for Sister_Madly. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The Thing - New York City (42:1001/1) Msg#: 1136 *INTERSHOP* 01-16-94 00:09:09 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: MICHAEL JOHNSTON (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1081 (HELLO HELLO) I had no character. I was the Magenta_Guest. Who are you? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: THE THING - NEW YORK CITY (I guess it had to be in caps.) (42:1001/1) Msg#: 2327 *INTERSHOP* 02-06-94 20:49:00 From: MICHAEL KROME To: DAVID KELLERAN Subj: SPEECH ACTS silent times, my dear, but wait... --- * Origin: Intershop from THE THING DUESSELDORF (42:1002/2) Msg#: 3454 *INTERSHOP* 02-17-94 10:15:36 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: ALL Subj: DESCRIPTION Blast 4: Bioinformatics Description Matters pertaining to spatial orientation are often expressed through cartographic interfaces -- maps -- that facilitate positioning within various environments. Such environments are comprised not only of physical components (buildings, streets, landmarks) but also dynamic systems (financial flows, product flows, population flows) and various codes (social, cultural, linguistic). Maps that show the flows of various dialects throughout geographical regions, for example, not only situate the reader in a specific dialect-ical physical location within an environment; they also situate the reader within dynamic dialect-ical flows. If a map is an admixture of locations, systems and codes, however, the same is true of its reader-maker, whose body and actions are a combination of subject positions, circulatory flows, and genetic information. The interaction between a person and a map, -More- then, produces a web -- of biological entity, social relation, and various systems and codes -- that facilitates negotiation with diverse environments. As such, the map mediates a traversal by which the reader-maker is simultaneously a producer of the map as well as an embodied product of the map, positioned by it while destabilized by its flows. Coding systems, in regard to which maps provide embodied orientation, are increasingly complexified via information technologies and economies. Through the circulatory dynamics of often interchangeable and increasingly digitized biological, social, linguistic, and cultural codes, these technologies reconfigure the contemporary landscape as they refigure us. The resulting network of relations, which has been characterized by Donna Haraway as "informatics," is one in which biological systems, like other systems, function as nodal entities with wider, dispersed nets of transactions. Given this situation, a primary question becomes, how might we orient ourselves and negotiate with the various intersecting spaces that are generated by this nexus of codes? How might we articulate ourselves, our relations, and our positions as living entities through these codes? In short, how might we configure a bioinformatic map? According to Deleuze and Guattari, "The map is open and connectable in all of its dimensions; it is detachable, reversible, susceptible to constant modification. It can be torn, reversed, adapted to any kind of mounting, -More- reworked by an individual, group, or social formation. It can be drawn on a wall, conceived of as a work of art, constructed as a political action or as a meditation." Bioinformatics constitutes such a map -- one that configures itself as a shifting transactional interface and its participants as constellations of biological and informational processes. As such, this project functions as a guide with which participants can situate themselves as living and livable bioinformatic entities in the world. This is useful in that many cultural productions, notably those of science fiction, have often constructed bioinformatic interfaces that have been fundamentally unlivable. Although examples of relatively tranquil bioinformatic life sometimes prevail -- as in Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness -- the primary images of such life are dismal. The often dystopian tales ranging from Jean-Luc Godard's Alphaville and Vernor Vinge's "True Names" to, more recently, Ridley Scott's Bladerunner, William Gibson's Neuromancer and Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash are well-known examples. Indeed, with technology-as-Big Brother looming in the background of many such fables, we have usually come to know bioinformatic life as inherently fatal and catastrophically doomed. It is not necessary, however, to visit these science fictive worlds in order to experience life as a bioinformatic entity; for such is our experience of normal, everyday life. The nets of transactions that we initiate, for example, with each use of a credit card, each medical exam, each subscription to a magazine, or each telephone call, connect us across various spaces and systems, -More- producing us as nodal entities within extensive, diffused informatic networks. By investigating the negotiations that occur between biological organisms and these currently existing networks, Blast 4: Bioinformatics positions itself, its participants, and their social relations *within* the fluidity of their exchanges, yielding a set of relations that is complicit, counteractive, collusive, and contradictory. Please save this message for future reference. We encourage Thingusers to circulate this document. Msg#: 3761 *INTERSHOP* 02-22-94 18:06:22 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: ALL Subj: PROCEDURAL ISSUES As this is the first posting, I want to mention just a few procedural items that might help the dialogue along. These are simply based on my online experiences. Anyone else who has procedural suggestions should feel free to post them. First, this is not a moderated dialogue. No one is "in charge" of the course of what is addressed here. Participants constitute the direction and flow. Second, I think it would be beneficial if everyone would pay particular attention to the "Subject" of each posting, as well as the subject of each response. If the content of a response to a certain subject thread seems to diverge from that thread's already established content, then the subject of the response should be changed. If, for example, the subject of a thread is "Politics," but I'm responding to the thread in a way that concentrates on a specific aspect of politics -- like the current health care debate -- then the -More- subject of my reply could be "Politics: Health Care," or something similar. I know this might sound obvious, but I have been in situations where an entire dialogue gets mushed into one thread. It's nice to be able to get close and follow the threads *and* to step back and look at the entire quilt. Msg#: 3762 *INTERSHOP* 02-22-94 18:08:27 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: ALL Subj: INITIAL IDEAS A few news items and other events have recently emerged that directly address some of the issues that are relevant to this dialogue. What I think is significant is that the following occurrences emerged from everyday life. Perhaps what we can do here is to try to disentangle various issues from them. One of the news items concerns the use of the Bovine Growth Hormone to stimulate milk production in cows. This is actually old news -- BGH has been in the news for a while now. But, as the milk that is produced by these cows is reaching the market, consumers are voicing concerns about its safety. What is interesting to me about this situation is that people who are not normally politically active or engaged have been flooding various offices with calls of protest. This phenomenon was described on the back page of the "The Week in Review" section of the Sunday, February 20 issue of *The New York Times*. In the context of Bioinformatics, it is notable that the interjection of biologically altered food products into everyday life has the potential, in -More- this case, to mobilize a social group that is not normally mobilized. Another event that occurred recently was the malfunction of software in Chemical Bank's ATM system. Each deduction via an ATM card was inadvertently deducted twice. This problem became a big news item -- almost as big as the recent slew of storms that has hit New York. Some 11:00 news programs even kicked off with a story on the problem, and a report on the malfunction was the lead story on the front page of the "Business Section" of the issue of the NYT cited above. When was the last time when a bank mistake made such headlines? But the more important aspect of this situation for us here is that this informational mistake caused over 100,000 people to shift their lives around: calls were made to the bank, customers went out of their way to visit their branch banks, the bank shifted around employees in order to take care of the problem, etc. A whole set of social and biological process were set in motion all because of a very small computer problem -- a coding problem. Msg#: 3790 *INTERSHOP* 02-23-94 00:11:06 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3762 (INITIAL IDEAS) this is relatively minor compared to the islamic world's response to a successful human embryonic cloning experiment. It was perceived as a transgression on the devine perogative. No *fatwa* was pronounced, as it was on Rushdie, but the tremors ran deep nonetheless. The hysteria of contemporary Islam stems from their perception of being overwhelmed by an unstoppable and profoundly degrading media culture that undermines their distinctions between the sacred and the profane. Biotechnology has added a new threat. Msg#: 3809 *INTERSHOP* 02-23-94 08:05:45 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: MORGAN GARWOOD (Rcvd) Subj: SACRED AND PROFANE It's interesting that you bring up the idea of the sacred and the profane in this context. Although I have some difficulties with Mircea Eliade's classic book of the same name (*The Sacred and the Profane: The Nature of Religion*, New York: Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, 1957.), he provides some intriguing points. He writes, "The threshold that separates [the interior of the church from the exterior of the city] also indicates the distance between two modes of being, the profane and the religious . . . The threshold, the door *show* the solution of continuity in space immediately and concretely; hence their great religious importance, for they are symbols and at the same time vehicles of *passage* from the one space to the other." (P. 25.) He also writes, "The sacred reveals absolute reality and at the same time makes *orientation* (asterisks mine) possible; hence it *founds the world* in the sense that it fixes the limits and establishes the order of the world." (P. 30.) These excerpts provide a clue about the use of the "gateway" and "threshold" -More- metaphors that abound in the online world. Indeed, in many ways, the threshold of an ATM doorway, for example, facilitates general orientation with the world. <*>Replies Msg#: 3812 *INTERSHOP* 02-23-94 09:13:32 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 3809 (SACRED AND PROFANE) that might be stretching the point, but, it might not. ATM machines have a common feeling with confessional booths in Catholic churches... You will want to read "Human Clones and God's Trust: an Islamic View" by Munawar Ahmad Anees in the Winter '94 New Perspectives Quarterly, the "Biocracy" issue. A key point here is that there are civilizations that are threatened, in their looking out at the world, with cultural extinction by the same technologies that fill us with awe (or indifference). Their implicate criticism is that we have become a culture of indifference, that we cannot distinguish the commercial transaction from the sacred (the popularity of "cargo cult" televangelism in America is strong evidence for this position). Transitional spaces, and transition rituals, protect against psychological contamination. The Moslem must wash before he prays (ablution), even if he must wash symbollically with sand. There is the declaritive aspect to his action, the "I remain conscious of the difference, and the importance of respecting it" -More- statement that ablution is... Machanistic approaches to life, an unspoken consequence of a biotech driven world (and it must become that, once population densities exceed a threshhold) have the power to shatter the Islamic belief system, much in the same way that Galileo was a grave danger to the Medieval Christianity. Islam is a comforting religion, and a deindividualizing one. "Islam" is the Arabic word "to submit". It is also a rigid one, and like rigid personality structures in individuals, has difficulty with counterexample and innovation. Linguistically, Arabic has almost no borrowed words, few exogenous concepts enter gladly into its lexicon and thought maps. We have many of theirs, zenith, nadir, algebra, hasish, assassin, possibly whore (from houri, heavenly consorts provided in the afterlife?), and so on. And so, a great conflict of values arises, an eschatological one, what is the final purpose of our being? If Personality Media (i.e. Vanity Fair) can be accurately described as "irony free zones", we might make the leap, and come to see modern western culture as an "eschatology free zone" where the act of raising questions of human destiny attains the mortal sin of Tastelessness. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#: 4181 *INTERSHOP* 02-26-94 14:03:32 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: CAROL BROAD (Rcvd) Subj: FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS Regarding your message in , "what's feminism got to do with Bio[informatics]," I would bring up (at the very least) the recent uproar over older women having a baby. This is an interesting phenomenon in that it combines ethical issues with genetic issues, and the genetic issues are sometimes densely intertwined with issues pertaining to information technologies. As genetic engineering is becoming more and more advanced, ethical issues pertaining to women's bodies and biological processes will more than likely figure prominently in wide-ranging debates about childbearing. If abortion is one of the cornerstones of feminism and of the decisions that affect womens' own bodies, what will genetic engineering -- and the spinoff debates into ethics and information technologies -- produce? <*>Replies Msg#: 4223 *INTERSHOP* 02-27-94 01:25:23 From: ELIZABETH LICATA To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4181 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) This isn't really the direction I was headed with my previous message but I think an interesting parellel might be drawn between the Big Brother aspect of current informatiation technologies given their intrusive/destructive capabilities and the waste that has already and continues to be laid re the environment. Who blew the whistle on Hooker/Occidental when Love Canal was the issue? A housewife, Lois Gibbs. I've also seen a lot of powerful installation work on environmental issues by women--some men, but I believethey're in the minority. There seems to be a natural questioning process employed through feminist strategies when corporate intrusion is the issue, often at grassroots levels not always visible in the current sense. Corporate intrusion and control is what you're talking about, although now the parties are becoming far more +difficult to pinpoint. That's one angle although I'm uncertain of how it applies here. Msg#: 4505 *INTERSHOP* 03-03-94 23:40:36 From: PETER JOHNSTONE To: ELIZABETH LICATA (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4223 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) I think corporate control and intrusion does apply here, but for the argument's sake I want to keep it from drifting into conspiracy theory. In the intro to this discussion, Schulz describes the mapping web: > > The resulting network of relations, which has been characterized by > Donna Haraway as"informatics," is one in which biological systems, > like other systems, function as nodal entities with wider, > dispersed nets of transactions. > I want to point out that when Haraway uses this word in *Cyborg Manifesto* it is part a larger phrase: *the informatics of domination* Forgive my nit-picking (I'm afraid it's a bit of a pet peeve for me, how Haraway is quoted ten times as often for her tech as for her politics... and why doesn't anyone quote her on monkeys?) but the distiction, and her linking of the phrase to socialist and feminist principles of design, points out a specific edge to Bioinformatics. When Lois Gibbs blew the top off Love Canal, her accessing of information technologies is as revolutionary as the message -More- she carried. And I think a useful question to ask is, if women had designed the internet, tell me what that would have been like? The answer is not pink. * for your reference, here is a chart of *transitions from the confortable old...dominations to the scary new networks* haraway describes as *informatics of domination:* * Representation Simulation Bourgeois Novel, realism Science fiction, postmodernism Organism Biotic component Depth, integrity Surface, boundary Heat Noise Boilogy as clinical practice Biology as inscription Physiology Communication engineering Small group Subsystem Perfection Optimization Eugenics Population Control Decadence, MAGIC MOUNTAIN Obsolescence, FUTURE SHOCK Hygiene Stress Management Microbiology,tuberculosis Immunology, AIDS Organic divison of labor Ergonomics / cybernetics of labor Functional specialization Modular construction Reproduction Replication Organic sex role specialization Optimal genetic strategies Biological determinism Evolutionary inertia, constraints Community Ecology Ecosystem Racial chain of being Neo-imperialism, United Nations humanism Scientific management in -More- home/ Global factory/electronic cottage factory Family / market / factory Women in the Integrated Circuit Family wage Comparable worth Public / private Cyborg citizenship Nature / culture Fields of difference Co-operation Communications enhancement Freud Lacan Sex Genetic engineering Labour Robotics Mind Artifical intelligence Second World War Star Wars White Capitalist Patriarchy Informatics of Domination * now, print THAT and tape it on your fridge. Msg#: 4817 *INTERSHOP* 03-05-94 01:42:48 From: RAINER GANAHL To: PETER JOHNSTONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4505 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) women will soon be on the net - especially when they have to work with it and the future office job isn't thinkable without these networks - and obviously women will have a big share Msg#: 4832 *INTERSHOP* 03-05-94 10:09:17 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4817 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) Actually, women already carry a "big share" of the load when it comes to using the net for business purposes. Likewise, they are once again some of the most highly monitored workers: networked productivity is extremely easy to quantify in terms of number of keystrokes, length between keystrokes, etc. etc. etc. In this way, networked data workers -- who are often women -- are subject to some of the most stringent surveillance tactics available. Msg#: 4919 *INTERSHOP* 03-06-94 03:17:32 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4832 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) this is a very good point. and here I might add something I pointed out already a year ago in this forum that the talk about the absence of the body is total nonesense. the body subjected to computer works is much more stressed then with traditional working methods. it is precisely the discrepancy between a minimum of body movements and a maximum of high level concentration that stresses all body functions. and here again, who is doing most of the work : women. (I was just somehow disturbed by the supposed to be little participation quote of femals on networks, something I haven't heard before and something I don't know: but I ask myself whether it is true ... true with the minitel, true with university networks, true with intertainment webs? Msg#: 4939 *INTERSHOP* 03-06-94 15:58:01 From: PETER JOHNSTONE To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4919 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) Here's the latest quote i could find on feminine participation on the net: Various estimates put the overall percentage of women online somewhere between ten and fifteen percent. I found this in a laudetory article about ECHO, in which they went on to point out: *But females comprise 37 percent of the members on ECHO, and nearly half of its conference hosts are women (Horn [stacy horn, founding sysop] hosts the culture conference).* well, I suppose you've got to give them credit. Msg#: 5240 *INTERSHOP* 03-07-94 21:13:11 From: MICHAEL JOHNSTON To: PETER JOHNSTONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4939 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) I was a female too when I was on ECHO! Msg#: 5248 *INTERSHOP* 03-08-94 00:39:07 From: RAINER GANAHL To: PETER JOHNSTONE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4939 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) well, it probably is this way, but this is only one study concerning one echo board. I can't serve you with studies at all, (statistical ones) also, I wasn't focusing so much on the difference between computer work and networking .... so again, we might talk of different things... (my opinion on this division is that in the near future, it will be diminished to insignificance and all kind of computer work will be networking... i.e. interconnectedness of stations and nets is going to be the standart configuration. Msg#: 5259 *INTERSHOP* 03-08-94 02:06:00 From: SABINE B. VOGEL To: ALL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5248 (RE: FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) can anybody explain more about this project? the subject, what will happen with the msgs etc. as long as I know, Blast is a box with objects. so how will text-files fit into that? and maybe about the connection to the Koeln Kunstverein? Sabine Msg#: 5340 *INTERSHOP* 03-09-94 08:47:39 From: JEFF HARRINGTON To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4181 (FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATICS) Here's a text file prepared by Choice in Dying (where I work - yes, I have a real day job) as an educator and computer programmer: Thought it might fit into the discussion... women as incubators et al... Jeff Harrington FACTS ABOUT: WOMEN AND END-OF-LIFE DECISIONS The right to refuse medical treatment at the end of life is not the same for women as it is for men. Advance directive laws in individual states often explicitly limit the applicability of living wills or durable powers of attorney for health care during the course of a woman's pregnancy. Even when the law is the same for men and women, there is evidence to suggest that the courts apply that law differently for the two sexes. -More- Pregnancy Exclusions "Pregnancy exclusions" -- the phrase used to describe the restrictive provisions of state law that forbids a woman's advance directive from being honored while she is pregnant -- illustrate this imbalance between the rights of women and men in end-of-life decisionmaking. In the landmark right-to-die case Cruzan v. Director, Missouri Department of Health, the United States Supreme Court recognized that competent adults have the constitutional right to refuse medical treatment, even if that treatment is necessary to sustain life. This right can be preserved through advance directives such as living wills and durable powers of attorney for health care in the event the individual loses the ability to make decisions for herself. In Roe v. Wade and more recently, Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a woman's decision to end her pregnancy is a "liberty interest" protected against state interference by the Fourteenth Amendment prior to viability of the fetus. Combined, these cases clearly suggest that, at least prior to viability of the fetus, no state may force a pregnant woman to receive unwanted medical treatment. -More- State laws do not follow suit: Of the 47 states and the District of Columbia that have living will statutes, o Thirty-four states explicitly forbid withdrawal of or withholding life support under a woman's living will if the woman is pregnant; o Ten states and the District of Columbia make no mention of pregnancy in their living will statute, implicitly allowing her to refuse life support during pregnancy; o Only three states permit the woman to choose to refuse life support if she is pregnant. Of the 37 states and the District of Columbia that have durable power of attorney for health care or health care proxy statutes: o Seven states explicitly forbid a health care agent from ordering the withholding or withdrawal of life support from pregnant patients; -More- o Twenty-six states and the District of Columbia are silent on the issue of whether an agent may order the withholding or withdrawal of treatment from a pregnant patient, implicitly allowing her to refuse life support during pregnancy; o Only four states permit the woman to choose whether her agent can withhold or withdraw life support in the event she is pregnant. Right-to-Die Court Cases Women may also be subject to unequal treatment by the courts when end-of-life medical treatment is at issue. Two researchers (Miles and August, 1990) studied the outcomes of all right-to-die cases decided by state appellate courts involving patients without advance directives. This study found: o Out of eight cases involving men, the court found sufficient evidence of the patient's treatment wishes from prior statements in six cases; o Out of 14 cases involving women, the court found sufficient evidence of the patient's treatment wishes -More- from prior statements in only two cases; o Many courts characterized past statements made by male patients as "rational." The female patients' statements were characterized as "unreflective, emotional, or immature;" o Some of the courts never even mentioned the women's prior statements. (rev.2/94) Msg#: 5996 *INTERSHOP* 03-14-94 11:05:46 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: SABINE B. VOGEL Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 5259 (RE: FEMINISM AND BIOINFORMATI) Blast is not only a box with objects; it's also a system for examining and producing objects and textualities as art. It's like a deconstructed, three-dimensional magazine, openly connected to other systems at all of its points. The editorial units are loose and there are many possible content- combinations; the editorial content spills in and out of the box, traversing its borders and blurring its boundaries. What we do is explore the ways in which editorial material is produced, circulated, and consumed as art, in light of information technology's hypertextualization. This editorial material is not limited to artists, curators, and writers; students, physicians, psychoanalysts, physicists, information technologists, cognitive theorists, architects, and so on, contribute editorially and in the process of examining the construction of content as art. So in this case, art becomes a way of examining how meaning is so produced--how material signifies, how it traverses discursive spheres and is "claimed," how it interrelates and transacts, how it is socially and culturally negotiated. -More- Each Blast investigates a topic, and builds on what the previous Blasts have developed. In the last Blast (#3), we developed a way to "map" editorial content, so that it can occur in social space, outside of the box. So this fourth Blast, which we have titled "Bioninformatics," will exist partially on The Thing. There will be dialogues going on here about it, and projects developed online and offline, in varying combinations. Blast will map this content through an indexing-system inside the boxes. Some of the projects will be included in the box in their entirety, so to speak, as texts, objects, images, sound pieces, computer programs, etc.; some of the projects will exist partially in the box, and some of the projects won't be in there at all--only mapped. So by participating in this forum you're contributing to Blast. We may develop a hypertext version of this forum to include in the boxes on computer disk, or we may decide just to leave it on The Thing and provide a route for Blast participants to access it in The Thing's archives. You can also propose a project; I will net-mail you the editorial guidelines for doing so. (If anyone else would like them, please ask Jeffrey Schulz and he will e-mail them to you.) The topic "Bioinformatics" deals with the interrelations between biological organism and information flow: how informatics penetrates biotics and how biology extends itself into social, economic, and cultural space. There is a description at the beginning of this forum. This material directly relates to the material we developed here on The Thing in the "Transactivism" -More- symposium. It was structured through that discussion. As always, we expect the topic--and the projects and the boxes--to develop in a way we haven't forseen. What we do is structure a system for editorial to be developed, and then try to accomodate whatever occurs, within our limitations. It is a collaborative project; even readers, who buy the Blast boxes, become participants, involved in the construction of the content of their own boxes and future boxes (we extend a special invitation in each box for them to contact us and participate). Things change, sometimes drastically. Blast is also a collective artwork in itself. Blast #4 will be exhibited at the Kunstverein Koeln from early January through mid-March, 1995, organized with Udo Kittelmann. There may also be a corresponding exhibition here in New York in early 1995. Let me know if you have any other questions. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#: 4210 *INTERSHOP* 02-26-94 19:43:59 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: ALL Subj: RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR this is more informatics than bio, but bears mentioning nonetheless...A long standing legal doctrin, *respondeat superior* (employers only responsible for employees acts which are committed within the scope of their employment) is being transformed into a more broad responsibility of employer for the acts of the employee. This is progressing at differing rates in various states. So what? you reasonably ask. Well, this is what...the employer, or prospective employer, is now under greater legal pressure to know everything about his employees, more about their backgrounds and psychological make up, medical histories, credit ratings, and such...because if he/she/it doesn't make a rigorous ( and probably intrusive ) examination, he/she/it can be held liable for not finding out abot it and doing something about it. The name of the game today is "negligent hiring". Nobody wants to be left holding the bag, so they are going to up the level of investigation considerably (good business opportunity for the naturally curious types), and privacy is going to have to take its lumps. This is part of an ongoing trend toward a low privacy. Maybe in fifty years, -More- the concept of privacy will begin to fade from our language as a quaint notion along the lines of "honor". Msg#: 4497 *INTERSHOP* 03-03-94 22:01:58 From: RAINER GANAHL To: MORGAN GARWOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ARABIC I feel a little bit confused by your certainty about the sealedness, the impermeability of the arabic language. I do really not have the slightest idea about arabic but I can not imagine that the turkish, british and french colonisation didn't affect the arabic language at all. it shouldn't be forgotten that at the end of the french domination of Algeria Arabic was declared as a foreign language next to the official "national" language that was in this case French. With the Russian language you can tell every dominant influence at any time absorbing lots of foreign words, also with Japanese and all the European languages. (this is a comment to what you wrote earlier under the "sacred and the profane" subject) <*>Replies Msg#: 4539 *INTERSHOP* 03-04-94 09:16:09 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4497 (ARABIC) That's just the way it is, exactly why I know not. Saudia proper is xenophobic, and does not admit "tourists" as such. Pilgrims on *hajj*, the essential visit to Mecca, are very carefully hearded there and back out. A girlfriend of yore lived in Riyadh as her father was an engineer for Aramco (she was Anglo-California) and supplied me with numerous impressions that quite few Westerners are permitted. The ruling family saw value in importing Western technology, but they were contemptuous of Western ideas, especially liberal ones. Nabokov, on the other hand, tells us that the Russians have a great fondness for new words, and that their sense of slang is second to none, with little of the hang ups about linguistic purity that Arabs have. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#: 4537 *INTERSHOP* 03-04-94 08:25:34 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: PETER JOHNSTONE (Rcvd) Subj: POLITICS > I think corporate control and intrusion does apply here, but for the > argument's sake I want to keep it from drifting into conspiracy > theory. Yes, I think you're absolutely right about control and intrusion. The continuing push of information brokerage houses into *domestic* houses, for example, is perfect fodder for conspiracists (as is Morgan's posting on RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR, #4210). But it's increasingly difficult for me to maintain the binary distinctions that propel not only conspiracy theories but also, at least in part, Haraway's rhetoric of domination. (It's interesting to note that the "informatics of domination" comparisons first appeared in *Socialist Review* in 1985, before the fall of the Berlin Wall.) For me, the format of the list in your message is much closer to the way I perceive the situation than is the format of the original print version. In the original version, the separations between "categories" are perfectly clear: Second World War vs. Star -More- Wars, Reproduction vs. Replication, etc. In your version, however, it is unclear where the boundary lines are drawn: is Corporate Worth the "opposite" of Public/Private? How does one affect the other? Where do they overlap, intersect, interact? For me, your format, which I believe was unintentional, signals that the questions and methods for addressing a variety issues have become much more complicated than a strict binarism can accommodate -- if they could have *ever* been accommodated in this way. For example, one of the comparisons from the original list, "tuberculosis" vs. "AIDS," is already ineffective because of the rising incidence of TB in various areas of the culture. The intended purpose of your posting foregrounds some very important distinctions, and it makes a nice bridge between some of the concerns of the Transactivism symposium and this dialogue. One question raised by both was/is, what kind of politics can be created in a networked environment? With the disappearance of many of the clear distinctions that have historically operationalized resistance (distinctions that have often characterized politics in general) what kind of models -- plural -- for a "webbed" politics can be configured? > Forgive my nit-picking Nit-picking is what we need, I think. -More- > why doesn't anyone quote her on monkeys? Hmmm, I wonder. Msg#: 4818 *INTERSHOP* 03-05-94 01:58:29 From: RAINER GANAHL To: THOSE WITHOUT ACCESS Subj: NET POLITICS unfortunately, but it is already now very clear: it will be the politics of the creditcard with its expiring date that is making it... this is not a cynical comment but terms like communication, consumption and purchasing are the first to merge in a liquid screen firmament of portable ideologies. <*>Replies Msg#: 4831 *INTERSHOP* 03-05-94 10:05:09 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4818 (NET POLITICS) > unfortunately, but it is already now very clear: Could you clarify this? I think I've lost some part of your thought process. Msg#: 4921 *INTERSHOP* 03-06-94 03:37:17 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 4831 (NET POLITICS) the "unfortunately" means that I regret the fact that the networks are far from being neutral open highways, stressing the metaphor of a more or less democratic travel surface (- even this metaphor sucks, since one needs first a car, then the paytoll, then the fuel and an aim to go for)."it is now very clear" .... that it is more an extented version of shopping, of consuming, of distracting End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#: 5872 *INTERSHOP* 03-13-94 14:20:13 From: BARRY SCHWABSKY To: BILL CHAPMAN Subj: REVIEWS I am also trying to send these three reviews as enclosed files herein. *Enclosed File: perrone Msg#: 6948 *INTERSHOP* 03-20-94 13:10:07 From: DENNIS SUMMERS To: ALL Subj: NO MATERIAL EXISTENCE Following is a page from an artist's book (No Material Existence: Cincinnati- the book) that documents a work I created last summer. I believe that it has more than tangential bearing to the Intershop subject at large. Anyone interested in purchasing the book can E-mail me for more info. From June 1- 4, 1993, I appropriated much of metropolitan Cincinnati, Ohio and northern Kentucky. I appropriated the power grid, radio and TV trans mission towers, and the telephone lines. I controlled them via a drumming action at the Central Nexus located on 344 W. 4th Street. These strategic sectors were claimed by the placement of ikons at sites specific to both the pertinent physical structures, and a larger, significant geometry. There were three different kinds of ikons. Electro-Power (EP) Intens- ifiers were located at strain towers for high voltage lines. At these sites, the Intensifiers could channel energy to power the No Material Existence Grid (NME Grid). In order to claim the ethereal communication frequencies, Broad- cast Resonant (BR) Filaments were anchored near radio and television trans- -More- mission towers. Here, the BR Filaments could filter signal as desired. Finally, Axis Magnifiers were hammered into telephone poles. This was done to focus signals by tapping and capturing them along new lines of force. For more details on structure and placement of these devices, please look to doc- umentation within this book. Note that although these devices were built using common materials and techniques, they were, nonetheless, done so according to the most exacting physical, metaphysical and metaphorical standards. The geometries used to guide location were designed to maximize the NME potential. At the Central Nexus (CN), a drumming ceremony was performed in order to initiate system function. The drumming was transmitted throughout the NME Grid by a tower at the CN. Incoming communication was received by six antenna dishes. An array of six iron rings and copper wire supplied start-up energy. The lines of force were directed by a large iron spike wrapped in a copper coil, vertically suspended from a bamboo tripod. Backup communication systems were supplied by a telephone (disconnected) and a deer skull. Once activation energy was reached, the system became self-sustaining. The weather during the four-day set-up period was largely rainy and unpleasant, punctuated by short periods of sunshine. There were unanticipated, yet positive sociological consequences. Although unintended, the placement of the NME Grid crossed socio-economic and environmental lines, tying them together within its vast interactive web. For example, the placement of the Axis Magnifiers were within the following neighborhoods. To the north: large -More- academic buildings in a collegiate, somewhat urban environment, along a four- lane highway. To the east: large expensive homes behind well-kept lawns along a quiet, shady tree-lined road. To the south: dilapidated wood and brick homes (many vacant) on a dirty run-down street. To the west: neat two-story working-class homes, behind plain lawns on a cross-town highway. Thus, a unification system of physical variables becomes one of a sociological nature. The Axis Magnifiers combine and communicate amongst the four neighborhoods. The EP Intensifiers and the BR Filaments worked in similar ways, further extending into rural areas. The CN was naturally down- town - the traditional center for economic and social activity. The NME Grid functioned fully until it was decomissioned on July 9, 1993. <*>Replies Msg#: 7007 *INTERSHOP* 03-21-94 02:10:05 From: PETER JOHNSTONE To: DENNIS SUMMERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6948 (NO MATERIAL EXISTENCE) > The NME Grid functioned fully until... so, I would be interested in knowing your definition of function here. If I read your text right, the NME grid produced nothing quantifiable in the traditional scientific method. If your idea of "function" is different from classical science's, let me have it. have you finally perfected the perpetual motion machine? Msg#: 7452 *INTERSHOP* 03-23-94 21:08:28 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: DENNIS SUMMERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6948 (NO MATERIAL EXISTENCE) this is wonderfully nuts...Nikola Tesla one hour after a generous dose of mescaline... Msg#: 8934 *INTERSHOP* 04-02-94 10:49:37 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: DENNIS SUMMERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 6948 (NO MATERIAL EXISTENCE) What did this communicate to these four neighborhoods? Was it the drumming, picked up by others via radio, tv, etc.? Also why do you call it "No Material Existence"? End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#: 7128 *INTERSHOP* 03-22-94 21:12:26 From: DENNIS SUMMERS To: PETER JOHNSTONE (Rcvd) Subj: NO MATERIAL EXISTENCE Function does not necessarily imply perpetual motion. Organic organisms "function" yet are not considered perpetual motion machines. Also as I wrote in the text I appropriated the Metropolitan Cincinnati power system, which supplied ample energy for the NME Grid. To answer your more general question, (if I understand it correctly), you are correct in assuming that the NME Grid produced nothing quantifiable in the "traditional scientific method". How- ever that is to beg the question, because certain fields of contemporary physics fail to produce the quantifiable. Now, although I am not certain what you consider to be the "classical science" definition of function, let me suggest (keep in mind that I'm not a writer) that function could be defined as "operating to cause an effect, an effect may exist physically, mentally, some combination of the two, or something else entirely." Does that help? Msg#: 9969 *INTERSHOP* 04-10-94 19:26:14 From: DENNIS SUMMERS To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO #8934 >What did this communicate to these four neighborhoods? >Was it the drumming, picked up by others via radio, tv, etc.? I'm not sure I understand this question, could you rephrase or expand? It is called "No Material Existence" a few reasons. The origin of this phrase came from a collage I did many years ago where I included the xeroxed phrase "...radio waves....no material existence..." taken from a textbook on electromagnetic radiation. I began to see NME as a useful metaphor for the theme of so much of my work, which is about things that have no material existence, some of which are recognized as "real" by the techno- scientific world, other of which is not. Msg#:10228 *INTERSHOP* 04-11-94 17:39:35 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: ALL Subj: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS We are pleased to initiate the first in a series of roundtable discussions to be conducted in this forum. Periodically, a topic will be introduced here, and a group of roundtable participants will serve as the catalyst in addressing the topic as it impacts the Bioinformatics project. Neither the forum nor the roundtable will be restricted areas, however, and all Thingusers are invited to pull up a chair. The only request to all participants is that this thread not be broken (i.e., that the subject of the thread not be changed). The following text, which introduces the first topic, was culled (and very slightly re-worked) from a full article by Kirk Johnson, which appeared in the Tuesday, February 8, 1994, Metro Section of the New York Times. Seated at the roundtable are: Jordan Crandall, Rainer Ganahl, Elizabeth Licata, JFS, Wolfgang Staehle, and Laura Trippi. By way of beginnings, perhaps everyone can offer hir initial thoughts on the text, mentioning points of interest and connection, allowing the dialogue to take shape and coalesce along the way. -More- Rootless, mobile, armed with 120 megabytes in his briefcase, Mr. John A. Cruz -- a 32-year-old account executive at Travelers Insurance -- is one of a new breed of high-tech nomads who are changing the face and the culture of many companies. Few industries are very likely to be transformed [by these nomads] as fundamentally as the paper-heavy insurance business. Under fierce pressure to cut costs, insurance executives say that two important insights make the mobile work force irresistible. First, insurance is essentially a disembodied product anyway, ideally suited to being electronically blipped, faxed and phoned from one place to another, without regard to place. The second is that all the apparatus of modern telecommunications -- laptops, modems, cellular phones, voice mail, electronic mail and beepers -- keeps everyone in touch all the time and lets management track non-office workers and their performance even more closely than people sitting just down the hall. What pushes hard against such change, however, are the decades gone before, when the insurance business was defined by its vast corporate cocoons. Being solid was more important than being swift. [The impact of this nomadism] has already turned many lives upside down. Joel Corbin, for example, a senior claims adjuster for ITT Hartford, has become a sort of gypsy moth of natural disasters: Eleven weeks in Hawaii for Hurricane Iniki, eight weeks in South Carolina for Hurricane Hugo, three weeks in Oakland for the wildfires there. His current field office is the Burbank Holiday Inn in -More- southern California where he expects to spend perhaps three or four months. An independent insurance owner said of this and similar situations, "Now you can have an organization where you can go weeks at a time and not see anyone else who works for that organization." In living with this situation, many insurance sales people say they have become little more than the sum of their E-mail. <*>Replies Msg#:10244 *INTERSHOP* 04-11-94 18:42:06 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10228 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) Well this article is interesting for its shortcomings: it oscillates between a skeptical, if not even critical attitude towards the abrupt changing of the work places- of people who are more or less pushed out of their offices and their social circuits. In an almost lamenting tone the article points out those facts but doesn't have a better explanation then just the one of facts. on the other end the article even tries to describe it with wrong oppositions and call this phenomena decentered versus centered (in the office building), mobile versus controlled. these oppositions made me really angry because they are just cover ups of the opposite truth. i.e. that now, those sale agents with their personalized remote control high tech equipments in cars are constantly reachable, always controllable, always at any time and place in touch with the main frame units. every little mistake is detectable immediately. decentralization ideologically means a distance from the center not in just a topographical sense but in a logistical, operational, referential, decision and responsibility related sense. I would even say that the opposite is true since -More- the main frame brain is extending and sends its tentacles via e-mail and other remote technologies out there at all times and in all spaces. the best quote of this article is the bon mots by an agent saying that now he isn't more than the sum of his e-mail communications. one other positive aspects of the article: in one other sentence they point out that with the disappearance of the class of clerks all the related business also are going to suffer and the city itself might change its face. I would have liked a better description of these consequences consequences. what is really happening to the worker (they say that de facto every high tech worker works 90 minutes longer every day), what happens to the rights of a worker, to the definitions of work as such. what are the social, psychological, and economical impacts of it.... Msg#:10316 *INTERSHOP* 04-11-94 19:32:05 From: DENNIS SUMMERS To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10228 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) This article reminds me of an "article" I heard on NPR news a month or so back. They basically said the same thing, but pointed out that it ap- plies to people in all sorts of occupations. Furthermore, they made the sociological point that because of this, people could live anywhere, and still earn a living. Many people were moving to the mountains of colorado, etc. This raises several issues. First, will people, given this opportunity choose to leave urban centers. I myself intend on doing so, first chance I get. What will this do to the previous wide open, underpopulated areas, that I selfishly want to keep that way? If the so-called technological elite leave (this shows my own bias, perhaps many would still choose to stay, any thoughts on this?) such centers, who will be left carrying the bag? The political implications of course are obvious. Maybe I'm overly simplistic, but it seems to me a nation of Walden Pond type living situations would lead to political isolation, and lack of centralized political control. The NPR story said that many of -More- these new-comers to the mountains, were not, as I recall, involving themselves in local politics. Msg#:10323 *INTERSHOP* 04-11-94 21:37:40 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: DENNIS SUMMERS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10316 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) I plan on doing much the same when technology gets over the interconnection hump, and so does everybody else I talk to. Look for rather funkier urban experiences coming to a future near you. Msg#:10327 *INTERSHOP* 04-11-94 23:14:43 From: JFS To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10228 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) The "you could be replaced by a computer" warnings are now coming true. All those nomadic insurance salesmen are their own secretaries, their laptops are their administrative assistants, internet is their company mailroom. One executive's job today represents four office jobs of yesterday. Does this mean one executive does the work of four? I sense that what constitutes "work" and "job" has changed a lot in the last few years. People I have worked with at Kodak and IBM who held senior positions in those companies have lost their jobs to downsizing. The struggle to guarantee regular hours (8 hours a day, really), health insurance, retirement package, and seniority is lost when companies hire younger people as freelance, contract and per-project employees. 'Company loyalty' is over when IBM dumps 25,000 people in a year. -More- The company is smaller, responsibility is greater and the corporate executive is on a perpetual business trip. His mobility is of greater value to the company - he can cover more jobs. Everyone knows that a company's greatest cost (especially a service company) is personnel. Big companies must cut payroll, insurance, and retirement costs. The plan is to reduce staff through electronic automation. The plan is working. The nomadic insurance executive has fewer choices and must perform under greater scrutiny if he wants to keep his benefits. He cannot rely on his friendship with someone he sees everyday at the company. He must produce satisfactory numbers. If we are being disembodied from our workplace, our value to a company may be only representable as statistics. How many documents processed? What percent of sales calls were successful? How much attendance did we generate? How many people downloaded the report? I wonder who will advance through this kind of competition and what kind of company will emerge. And come on, a measly 120MB HD? No one should have to suffer like this!!! Msg#:10463 *INTERSHOP* 04-13-94 01:12:38 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JFS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10327 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) today my mind was yet again blown by the rate that change is overtaking us; even the rate of acceleration is accelerating...I used to order a report on a company and it would arrive express mail in two days (this was as of last week), now I fax in an order with the joint I want to know about, and the report is back to me over the fax (plain paper fax damn nice, looks like real printing job) in about three hours...so I call the treasurer of Immulogic and sound like I know what I am talking about all before quitting time, then locate and book a flight to a seminar on OAG without talking to a soul (tix will arrive by mail in a couple of days), put a stop payment on a stolen check through another program, again without any personal contact, listen to a 45 minute lecture on freedom of speech on cassette (go to a class?fugedaboudit, who has the time), plug into the brain machine for a while to get some extra theta in the right mix with some high alpha and beta...omigod, this is becoming normal...you gots a plan? Msg#:10787 *INTERSHOP* 04-14-94 21:00:57 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10228 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) I am reminded of a recent AT&T ad campaign. In one version the caption read: "Did you ever attend a meeting in bare feet?" and then at the bottom: "YOU WILL." It showed a picture of a nicely equipped notebook computer next to the bare feet of its operator on a wooden table on what looked like a porch of a vacation house. The background vista was a Caribean landscape with a nice ocean view. I must admit I was quite seduced. Just imagine running TT somewhere offshore (no taxes, no obscenity laws, etc.), moving headquartes to Port Antonio in Jamaica and doing sysadmin work remotely from the porch between sailing trips and an occasional ganja spliff. Ahh...bunker dreams! Msg#:10788 *INTERSHOP* 04-14-94 21:01:10 From: GISELA EHRENFRIED To: JFS (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10327 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) What company will emerge? I saved a New York Times article by Phil Patton,"The Virtual Office Becomes Reality," Oct. 28, 1993. It's about the ad agency Chiat Day transforming their headquarters into a virtual office. The work force is split in "teamers," employees who work in the main office, and "mobiles," who move around a lot to increase the "face time," the time spent face-to-face with clients. But the term mobile applies also to workers back at headquarters who don't have their own office, but rather use a "drop-in office" (an office used in turn by many employees), or are "hotelling" (setting up offices for temporary use, like hotel rooms). Saves office space, of course... and gives us the second-class citizen phenomenon: a work force divided into the ones who spend most of the time in -More- the office and the office-less mobile who may come to work and find all desks taken, a work force more and more consisting of part-time and temporary workers and consultants, which can be easily adjusted, reduced or enlarged in number. Chiat/Day has come up with a strange wrapping for it. The organizing model for their virtual office is the college campus and the classroom - pick up your laptop and phone at the "company store", go to the concierge to register for a project room [class room], go to the media center which figures as the library, where you can do research on a CD-ROM-based computer... there is also a "student's union." Chiat/Day College, the training camp for the work forces! The organizing model for the preceeding office type was the factory. There is a foto of a large office space designed in 1906 by Frank Lloyd Wright for Larkin Company, where every female clerk is flanked by male executives "to promote productivity." Gentlemen, these were the times! Msg#:10840 *INTERSHOP* 04-15-94 14:18:51 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10228 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) I find this situation interesting because it concerns the insurance industry and what might be loosely called the disaster industry, which lock in place to generate complementary pushing-pulling forces like an enormous pump: insurance sucks in and casts a protective net, instilling comfort and safety; disaster thrusts out, disembodies, dissolves, dismembers. This mechanism is productive of a certain kind of ongoing psychogeographic panic, a looming state of perpetual fear and intoxicating emergency, a lurid and invigorating desire for both the safety of home and the thrill of crime, of walls built safe and blown down, of a self secured and a self unhinged. Individuals, social relationships, biotic components, and psychogeographies are enmeshed in this dynamic, disrupted, dispersed, and radically reordered along the shifting fault lines of the information economy, which fragments self and space even as it provides for their integration. In many ways this is the natural environment for our Travelers Insurance man: always in transit, stalking scenes of death and disaster, he is a being-in-conversion, a specter hovering at the periphery of the roadside accident and the storm shelter, summoned by the collective -More- states of the victims and the victims-in-waiting, who long to be written into the script, validated, absolved--to traverse the television screen and to touch the collective mind, to enter the delirious storm systems of the televisual economy, to traffic in the disaster commodity and the apocalyptic oratory. "There is a history of connection between the mutilation of a body and the need to record that feat," Thyrza Nichols Goodeve writes in a recent review of *The Diary of Jack the Ripper*; such recording or inscribing is an act of insuring (as the Ripper diarist himself writes, "I cannot stop the thrill of writing"), a scripting of safety in the face of danger, an embodying of the disembodied, which produces the latter even as it seemingly effaces it. Acts of insurance, bodies of information, and dynamics of disaster are connected at all points to the economies and technologies that generate them, which are connected to the embodied subjects who produce and are produced by information, economies, and technologies of both integration and disintegration. Their systems of linkage constitute dynamic arterial networks, through which blood, wind, and codes flow and around and through which bodies coalesce. So not only has the impact of this so-called nomadism "turned many lives upside down," it has sent them careening headlong into a world which requires alternate psychosocial geographies and climatic conditions, a ghostly but hyperreal terrain marked at each step by its continual breakup and reformation--that is, by the modes and manifestations of its circulation. What kinds of maps might we envision to accomodate this? It is interesting to -More- consider this in the context of "insured" disaster space, because this embodied/disembodied, attached/detached, safe/high risk, health/dis-ease (as the New Agers write it), integrative/disintegrative dynamic has always ordered our sense of world. And here the circulatory energies are that of nature, the economic and the informational, all of which are rooted in the biologic, and which traverse it and employ its logics of production. What are these ghostly social geographies and the loci of circulatory energies--such as selves--that drift through them, simultaneously disrupting them, producing them, and being produced by them? End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:10466 *INTERSHOP* 04-13-94 01:58:08 From: RAINER GANAHL To: H T N Subj: NEW BREED there is a new interesting article in the NY times today about commerce in the e-mail: entitled: commerce comes to the internet. "a new high speed network offers security for business data" .. . finally it is here... what once was reserved for research and art school kids is no being marketed for other ends... Msg#:10467 *INTERSHOP* 04-13-94 02:02:08 From: RAINER GANAHL To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: NEW BREED as the title of the article I am supposed to discuss is called "New Breed of High-Tech Nomads" I want to call my string "new breed" from now on... Msg#:11431 *INTERSHOP* 04-18-94 23:19:23 From: CHRIS KRAMER To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10244 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) > *what is really happening to the worker (they say > that de facto every high tech worker works 90 minutes longer > every day), what > happens to the rights of a worker, to the definitions of work > as such. what are > the social, psychological, and economical impacts of it....* > For me this question is significant, and unanswered. > Wishful thinking that somehow the trajectory of development > promises equity down the road will get us absolutely nowhere. > There is good reason to think more clearly and > carefully about the vision of the future we hope to realize. > Inspirational messages are not very useful, but serious > thinking about concrete issues and long term goals definitely > is. > Demand equals need plus *buying power*, so the poor are out of > the equation all together (except where their labor can be > exploited to create luxury items for those of us with money). > The problem for most CEOs is how to get rid of these useless > creatures who will only get in the way. > The elites, to justify their advantages in > material and influence, inevitably come to see themselves as > superior, deserving more, better able to rule, etc. etc. The > rabble belong where they are. > Indeed, far from the gap between rich and poor shrinking, it > steadily increases, because output rises and > the share to capital stays constant or rises. > This, indeed, is my definition of alienation. What we > get, we get because it benefits others and, indeed, preserves > our ultimate subodination. > the only thing that is ever > going to cause that situation to change to a truly egalitarian > distribution of both material and circumstance and influence > in the economy is the irradication of class rule, <*>Replies <->, Msg#:12305 *INTERSHOP* 04-23-94 13:30:03 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10840 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) Jordan, it has dawned on me that your writing is intensely auditory; tonal, dramatic, needing vocal inflection. It is like a fusion of John Zorn and sociology. Have you thought about reading your postings aloud (or better yet, having several readers go at it) and recording the work as a performance and distributing the cassettes? That would be really fun! Msg#:12353 *INTERSHOP* 04-23-94 20:39:18 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: MORGAN GARWOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12305 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) I usually have the Amiga read my messages to me. For your messages I prefer the robot voice. Jordan's messages sound good when read by the female voice with the pitch lowered to about 40. Only when I read Roberta Smith's reviews in the Times I read them aloud to myself imitating the inflection of Winston Churchill. Msg#:12404 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 09:31:15 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: MORGAN GARWOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12305 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) Thank you Morgan, I never really thought about that. I'll do this if you do some more Channeling. Msg#:12688 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 21:12:08 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12404 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) well, me and Bob will do a regular hook up, so the Rausch doesn't have to mess with all this pomo computer gumbo but can still tune in to his fabulous fans. I was talking to Jerry Lewis about a mind link too, but his vibrations are tough to follow...he screams too much. QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!! Msg#:12689 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 21:15:06 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12353 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) how does your Amiga do this? Make me sound like Charlton Heston, OK? My ego needs the boost. Just for fun, make Roberta Smith sound like Imelda Marcos! As for Jordan, let him be Helen Frankenthaler for a day, just cause! Msg#:12401 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 08:20:05 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 10228 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) For me, one of the issues that grows out of this situation has to do with community. One aspect of this issue has to do with corporate culture and the fact that the community of insurance workers no longer provides the sense of group cohesion that it once did. When the insurance owner says in the article, "Now you can have an organization where you can go weeks at a time and not see anyone else who works for that organization," one of the implications is that the community has been dispersed, perhaps along with the sense of security and comfort that was provided by that community. The issue of community also emerges in terms of the intense, short-term communities that gather around these workers as they make their way from one disaster to another. For just a short period of time, the insurance worker might, in fact, become the most *important* source of consolation for certain people, fulfilling the need for an intense and personal communal experience. But, of course, this community is founded on a very short duration. In many ways, this also seems to be characteristic of the communities that form around bulletin boards such as this one. Often, online communities are short-lived, extremely intense, and fleeting. In terms of Jordan's question regarding social geographies, it seems that information technologies are seriously impacting our notions of community in ways that we might not have possibly imagined. For example, how do these changes effect notions of place? If a new sense of place is emerging, what changes might be in store for stability and/or community? Msg#:12921 *INTERSHOP* 04-25-94 01:40:51 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12401 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) technology does change our places.... by place I mean a culturally and socially construed entity negotiated through the way we deal, live and communicate in it. technology seems to annihilate distances and the specificity of places and turn them into something neutral, faceless, without living provil. but it does something interesting too: it creates a new symbolic landscape we can travel through: for ex. there is an entire new linguistic and graphic world one encounters in interfaces that start to substitute for "places", "commun places" we usually would encounter in, we usually would talk about and reassure and readapt our common views. so to one degree it is right to mourn a loss of geography (even if you gain new territory you fly or drive through) but on the other side one gains new land, a kind of terra informatica, an interfacial passage, a symbolic realm that not just hosts us but also serves as a new kind of reference point. Msg#:13057 *INTERSHOP* 04-25-94 22:35:50 From: CHRIS KRAMER To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12401 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) > Strange as it is to consider how > Often, online communities > sucks in and casts a protective net, instilling comfort and > safety; > disaster thrusts out, disembodies, dissolves, dismembers. > How come? > more often than not people operate under conditions of conflict; > they may have > several reasons that motivate their actions and behavior... > It could be that if I had a different set of experiences or a > different way sto > see the material universe I would be as exited Msg#:13082 *INTERSHOP* 04-26-94 08:41:05 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: CHRIS KRAMER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13057 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) >> It could be that if I had a different set of experiences or a >> different way sto >> see the material universe I would be as exited You would be as excited as . . . ? Msg#:13896 *INTERSHOP* 05-02-94 21:54:51 From: CHRIS KRAMER To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13082 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) > You would be as excited as . . . ? > as much as > you are > about > online communities > Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. > you seem to be seduced by the drive of your > nature of the ideal > but > ideals are always confounded by the human condition. > our age is > not > essentially different than other ages in terms or the complex > relations between an individual and access to the mediums of > idea exchanges. > Our age is no less shot through with the methods of power, the > molding of opinions, the spin doctoring, its own strange > faiths and quests for redemption, > I keep hearing that > there is such a thing as progress, and above all that you are > it > and while I remain dubious of this, > Sometimes it seems to me as if certain strata of the > practitioners and supporters > are not at all interested in this, > why? > What is it, that it is good. > For example it might be possible that > this > is universally appealing, > if this is so then it seems to me that this appeal is derived > not from some objective beauty > but rather on the fact that > within the male or female body we are atracted to > abundance > In other words this aesthetic is based upon the human > condition. > On the other hand > Far, far too much stuff between people is weak and trivial, no > doubt because we inhabit a society that has a fear of real > emotion. We cling, consequently to the banal, or make every > effort to reduce what goes on aound us to the banal, the > *consumable*. The passions fly in the face of all this, as > well they should; > It's just that it describes certain, but not all, of > essentialities > which gives it a continuing interest. > There is still something yet to be assimilated Msg#:14038 *INTERSHOP* 05-04-94 08:10:07 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: CHRIS KRAMER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13896 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) > >> You would be as excited as . . . ? > > >> as much as >> you are >> about >> online communities > Not necessarily excited, but interested. Yes, the "human condition," whatever that means exactly, can be said to compound idealization. Reality bites, ya know. I find it a stretch, however, to deny the fact that online communities exist, and that they will continue to exist. Given this, I think it is important to consider the ways in which communities have changed. There really *are* communities out there in the online world, and there are ways that those communities function that *are* unique. And the dynamics produced by those communities as they intersect with various aspects of our lives -- through people like insurance agents -- is a development that needs to be unpacked. Of course, it needs to be unpacked in a way such that the only thing that remains is not an empty piece of Samsonite. Msg#:14045 *INTERSHOP* 05-04-94 11:06:22 From: RAINER GANAHL To: CHRIS KRAMER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13057 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) or just consider the fact that one becomes here a reader/writer, something that wasnt really possible "before" - of course there always had been reading and writing but here there is a kind of "new", "direct" #reading/writing# going on that hadn't been possible otherwise... all "ontological" or "existentialist" mournings or claims about the exchange itself has to be negotiated somewhere else. Msg#:14740 *INTERSHOP* 05-07-94 23:05:12 From: CHRIS KRAMER To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14038 (ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS) > The most troubling trend I see is the increase in > "unreflective" consumption and production. > There are things happening in there that need attention. > in the sense that as far as our butts are concerned, > every little mistake is detectable immediately. > The political implications of course are obvious. > decentralization ideologically means a distance from the > center > the ones most effectively being redistricted at the present > juncture > the corporations and the privileged few with *real* access to > information > what are the social, psychological, and economical impacts of > it.... > Look for rather funkier urban experiences coming to a future > near you. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:12335 *INTERSHOP* 04-23-94 19:37:04 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: MORGAN GARWOOD (Rcvd) Subj: ZORN AND POMO > It is like a fusion of > John Zorn and sociology. Morgan, that is *so* interesting! I always thought Zorn was so much more pomo than pomo itself, especially visual pomo and its theoretical theatrics (fragmentation, etc.). I get a glint of dispersal in what you are suggesting to Jordan, and I think it's right on the mark. <*>Replies Msg#:12405 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 09:34:58 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12335 (ZORN AND POMO) I've never listened to Zorn, but will have to now, his name keeps popping up. Msg#:12684 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 21:01:30 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12405 (ZORN AND POMO) he can be next to impossibly difficult to listen to, the bursting all over the place with magnesium flares of clarity. I think a group reading of your work a la Firesign Theatre with varying tape speeds and pitch shifting would make a fantastic CD. *Get A Handle On Jordan Crandall*!!! Also with some samples employed...could be a monster, Jordan! Msg#:12895 *INTERSHOP* 04-24-94 22:51:35 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 12405 (ZORN AND POMO) He's one of my faves. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:13272 *INTERSHOP* 04-27-94 03:13:25 From: ED GRANT To: ALL Subj: LOW CULTURE "Sometimes, I find it hard, so hard to find the will, whatever, nevermind" Nirvana from NEVERMIND "I'm afraid" HAL, from 2001, A Space Odessy. While talk about the new worker with all the high tech is interesting, in an academic way, and all.... What about transparent tech? TV, Music, Movies, News? The stuff we all (the bulk of the US) consume daily without reflection. Kids on Seattle who morn Kurt's passing, the AMERICANS who reflect on Dick? How do I know WAR from the "in bomb" video footage? Yes, the world is changing...Information Tech, ATMs, the NET...Yet, people seem to be generating identities through consupmtion, deal with "reality" through movies and videos. Who really fucking cares about the man from THE HARTFORD, I don't. I'm more worried about the ability to interact on a level that it at least a bit removed from the market (and the Institution, for that matter). Whats up, we are all input devices, but must we all be passive output devices also? One would wonder....... <*>Replies Msg#:13431 *INTERSHOP* 04-28-94 09:15:51 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13272 (LOW CULTURE) I understand you're concerned about > the ability to > interact on a level that it at least a bit removed from the market but then, as a way out, are you proposing to enmesh yourself in an unreflective orgy of productization? Msg#:13887 *INTERSHOP* 05-02-94 21:06:41 From: ED GRANT To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13431 (LOW CULTURE) Not in the least. In some ways Kurts suicide has some virtue (but I guess thats a whole other story). The most troubling trend I see is the increase in "unreflective" consumption and production. Over a three year period that I taught intro art to Fresh and Soph college students was a drop in the ability to solve problems. Even worse, there was an increase in resistance to problem solv ....Problem solving. The students expected to learn tricks and formulas to make art. I was not well liked by some of the class. One needs to take in information, refect on it, sythesize it, not merely reflect it. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:13657 *INTERSHOP* 05-01-94 03:15:00 From: JOHN DUNN To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: RE: LOW CULTURE: PC So you belong to the political correctness movement that wants to intervene in unreflected, positivist, consume-oriented, free market. Let me know if I can help. I think the kids in Seattle mourning Kurt's suicide weren't just passivly or ritualistically mourning, maybe a lot watching TV were though. I recently read an article in Psychology Today that talked about the values of depression(made me feel a bit better). Most, if they are too sick physically, don't go to work and are quiet. If however the blues come to town they do(go to work). I think this comes from the hundreds of years of the mind/body dualism. The brain(soul) also gets sick and needs time to recuperate or reorganize and feel what the right thing is to do next. I also think meditation is too forced: like commanding your soul to be healthy, active, and have fun, and be relaxed and disciplined and everything else just through the simple act of emptying the consciousness. After four hard hours of emptying it'll just fill right back up and probably a bit faster than four hours. The article recommended reading a book taking a walk, cleaning up the private space, or just sitting quietly. There are things happening in there that need attention. It's like solving a riddle, or like a dog with a big stick in it's mouth trying to get through a narrow door: it turns his head this way and that and rams awkwardly against the opening and then suddenly it's through and probably itself a bit shocked how easily and suddenly it went. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Intershop from THE THING DUESSELDORF (42:1002/2.0) <*>Replies Msg#:13888 *INTERSHOP* 05-02-94 21:15:27 From: ED GRANT To: JOHN DUNN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13657 (RE: LOW CULTURE: PC) Well, I don't think I've ever been called PC before, except maybe by this very conservative Catholic professor. And, when I'm feel very aggresive, I take my small dog for a long walk and play with a large stick. She makes much of the shit seem less important. Dogs are close to pure ID. I guess I must ask you to clarify your PC labeling. And, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call Kurt Cobain the Ian Curtis of this generation, not the John Lennon or Sid Vicious (Rolling Stone, Andy Rooney and John McClaughlin (sp?). When I get really bummed out, Joy Division tends to pick me up, 'cause at least I'm not a depressed as old Ian. And, I got a dog. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:13658 *INTERSHOP* 05-01-94 03:15:00 From: JOHN DUNN To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DECENTRALIZED JS> example, how do these changes effect notions of place? If a new sense JS> of place is emerging, what changes might be in store for stability It is not a new sense of place. It is important to look at europe's history of city development as a consequence of technology development and class struggle(certain societies don't allow certain types of technology). The latest development being that the affluent go to the suburbs, but that cannot be seen as some fluke of modern times or a new notion of place, exactly as the traveling salesman is a consequence of history and not due to a new notion of place. Like you wrote: it is emerging, but out of what? Nomads are a consequence of the city and land power struggle. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Intershop from THE THING DUESSELDORF (42:1002/2.0) <*>Replies Msg#:13660 *INTERSHOP* 04-30-94 06:41:57 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: JOHN DUNN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13658 (RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DECENTRALIZED) Yeah, that's a really good and important point. The politics of land and city are very much a part of what's going on with the nomads. I think the Tofflers address this in a section on the revolt of the rich (or something like it) in their most recent book. Perhaps a *singular* new notion of place is not emerging, but an *array* of new notions of places: the nomads who have the power to migrate, those who choose to telecommunicate, those who must remain in urban areas for economic/political reasons, etc. Msg#:13832 *INTERSHOP* 05-01-94 23:03:37 From: GISELA EHRENFRIED To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13660 (RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DECEN) > Perhaps a *singular* new notion of place is not emerging, but an > *array* of new notions of places: the nomads who have the power to > migrate, those who choose to telecommunicate, those who must remain > in urban areas for economic/political reasons, etc. I don't envy the poor guy from the insurance company who has to migrate from client to client while under tight suspervision from headquarters, nor the employee who has to register for desk space at Chiat/Day. I also believe Wolfgang has fallen prey to an ad where you do your work via laptop on the sandy beaches of a Caribbean island (doesn't this rather imply that you will have to work for your company even on your vacation?). A future privilege seems *not* to have to move, seems that places will come to people, not people go to places. Marshall Blonsky said something very provocative at last week's panel: "We" do not need more space... not the Balkans, not the Dominican Republic... "We," meaning the corporations and the privileged few with *real* access to information (a "we" excluding most of us, of course. And contrary to you, Rainer, I had the impression that Marshall didn't count himself in, either). Quite a radical departure of politics as we know it! Msg#:13879 *INTERSHOP* 05-02-94 13:34:04 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: GISELA EHRENFRIED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13832 (RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DECEN) vell, dahlink, in my travelling around through varieties of hotel waystations inlife I cannot but help notice the transformation of hotel into office with bed. Phones now have "dataports" which is juicy term for an extra jack in the phone to plug your trusty six shooter computer into and logon to the company host database/computer thing. Your office/corporate suite is now awaiting you whereever you go in criminal free environments, now generally attached to an airport so you walk from plane to office/bedroom and plug in for a rap session with home base while room service brings you a pizza. You send out for some babes to do Extasy with while watching Wayne's World between doing deals and go to floor 6 to partake of the "spa" and sweating out the wages of sin in the sauna the order some stuuf for the house from the Compu-Serve catalog because who wants to trudge to Wal Mart anymore. Do you care less about Art'n'Politix? Cripes no! All around is the great sea of "restructured" former employees of mega corps gone belly up through every fault of their own, and joining that number is about negative infinity on your priority list, so you better behave and drink lots and lots of spring water before that urine test gets sprung on you, maybe an original and certified Dali print for the master bedroom to compliment the bidet nobody can figure out how to use but looks impressive next to the potty in the sense that as far as our butts are concerned, we are highly continental, ah welcome children, to the labyrinth, but carefulnow, the Minotaur has been prowling the corridors, maybe waiting to jump you out by the Coke machine. Msg#:14047 *INTERSHOP* 05-04-94 11:32:12 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13660 (RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DECENTRAL) some very intersting points have been addressed once notions of power and struggle come into discussion: it has become very trandy to identify with the icons of deprivation and excommunication: ignoring so historical, cultural and class struggle relationships. it is totallynot the same whether people were/are nomads in a site and a culture that hasn't yet undergone settelment or people who were chased out of their houses, their villages and cities, (or haven't allowed to integrate and devellop according the full possibility of their social environement) - with deleuze and others suddenly everybody wanted to be a 'nomad" - also IBM was using for the companies logo culture the icon of charly chapling, a modernist tramp who was not just fighting for all his life such big interests as IBM can be seen as emblematic for, but a figure that even got chased out of this country as he was at a point unbearable for the ideological make up of the US (I vaguely remember that he had big troubles with the immigration of the mac carthey time for his political engagements and films... /if I am not totally wrong/) most successfull art world members (to name just one group) are in some way "homeless" and vagabonding in aerports and train stations... but it is pathetic and insultilng to even compare it with real homelessness of contemporary cities (it shows the danger and power in the usage of metaphors) Msg#:14136 *INTERSHOP* 05-04-94 19:34:55 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14047 (RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DECENTRAL) Yes, I think you're absolutely right about the danger and power of metaphor usage. And, given the current trendiness of the "nomadic individual" that you indicated, an investigation of the ways in which this term appears in various contexts is important; as well as is an attempt to address issues that you bring up concerning homelessness, forced migration, and others. Perhaps others will contribute to the dialogue as well. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:13866 *INTERSHOP* 05-03-94 00:51:00 From: JOHN DUNN To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:MOVEMENT, HIS I'm really overwhelmed at this point. Too many things come together here. There is an amazing similarity between Mr. Crandall's opening literale and Julia von Heyl's cosmological apocalypse on text droning and semantic relativity in Meta forum on 4,24,`94(you'll have to wait a while for a translation. I'd probably ruin it anyhow. Maybe Staehle, Krome, or Ganahl, or whoever would absolutely love to do it.)((the usual comparison European labyrinth psyche vs. American awe-of-natural forces could also come up but that's a bit sticky and romantic).But that's not even the main part of it because their texts are so telling in their actuality without historical complications. Drink the history cocktail in addition and your just spinning around. That is the puzzle. From whence come you, where are you, and whither do you go? For example the ancient Egyptians are easy in a small way, regarded as a period that we are far away from looking through history books, but they influenced every age and continue to do so(Christo, Rueckriem). Not only that; the movements and mystery in how, why, what, where changed in itself must be seen as an interchange of Nomads, technology, and class struggle. No one will ever get over their rudimentary, statement of hierarchy. I`m not helping anyone out with this garbage though. It's a good thing I wasn't Jesus at his sermon on the mount. Everyone would have, pulled their hair out, and screamed- jesus fucking christ, shut the fuck up and go get laid. These problems may seem to throw the brakes on this thread but I think it is very easy to come out of the history books back to a traveling insurance salesperson(their is probably a big difference in how men and women on the road percieve thier existence and community). For example the feudal landlords vs. the church as central city power. He moved away from the city in the first place to avoid church taxes much as big company executives do today to avoid bureaucracy. In any case there is a book I read(partially) titled "Freedom Power City" but in German that has a second meaning because Power in German is spelled the same as the a conjugation of the verb "to make"(Freiheit Macht Stadt) and I'll have to check it out again because the article about the development of the city was brilliant. To answer your message: there may be an array of nomad types but, unfortunately you'll have to be more specific and, of course, tell me from where they imerged or are imerging from. As stated I have to get a bit more specific too. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Intershop from THE THING DUESSELDORF (42:1002/2.0) Msg#:13872 *INTERSHOP* 05-02-94 09:16:50 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: GISELA EHRENFRIED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 13832 (RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:DEC) > A future privilege seems *not* to have to move, ... Exactly! Our new slogan here: HOW TO HAVE SUCCESS WITHOUT GOING ANYWHERE! <*>Replies <->, End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:14387 *INTERSHOP* 05-06-94 10:02:33 From: ED GRANT To: ALL Subj: CLIPPER I don't know how many of you read WIRED, but there is an interesting development on the Clipper (government standard encryption, for easy wiretapping) issue. There is an e-mail based petition to oppose Clipper. Using the net to possibly affect change in a grassroots manner is great. Now that there are so many people on the Net, the government can't ignore it. It could become an potential threat that they could not control. I believe that we as Net users need to be very active in keeping it free of VP Gore and the rest of them. For more infor on Clipper, e-mail email@example.com. Also, Sen. P. Leahy, D-VT will hold hearings on the issue sometime this summer. I have heard that the good senator is e-mailable, but have not found his address. Leahy is a half way cool guy, and could be convinced that Clipper is inherenlty evil (I'm from VT and have watched him for about ten years). Anyway, hope you find this as interesting as I. <*>Replies Msg#:14533 *INTERSHOP* 05-06-94 17:30:23 From: SYSOP To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14387 (CLIPPER) Why read WIRED when you can read the Cypherpunks List? Check
ists in the Message Area and join cypherpunks. There simply is no better source of information regarding Clipper/PGP issues. Recently there was a preliminary hearing in Senator Leahy's office and the cypherpunks mailbombed C-Span's aol email-box to get them to cover it. They didn't succeed - it was to late, but they effectively demonstrated how one can use the networks for direct political action. They are a great bunch and there is a very good signal to noise ratio in that list. Msg#:14572 *INTERSHOP* 05-07-94 00:53:51 From: ED GRANT To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14533 (CLIPPER) Why, thank you. But you must admit, Wired has some realy nice colours and pictures and all. Anyway, thanks again. Msg#:14579 *INTERSHOP* 05-07-94 01:45:41 From: ED GRANT To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14533 (CLIPPER) I have just finished scanning (and also a bit of reading), and I must say there is a great deal going on there, 1200+ messages. But, from what I have read, there wasn't much more on Clipper. But, thats because the government isn't letting much out. One of the more evil aspects of our system. Anyway. Even with the lack of any deeper info, the whole area of "cypherpunks" is alive and well. It is this that I find so fascinating. What was once a march is now an electronic wave. Mapping the junction of the biological and technological, this is it, right here right now. Still, I know Leahy is on-line, and all I could find was his vox/fax line. Any clues? Msg#:14884 *INTERSHOP* 05-09-94 13:32:07 From: FLORIAN ZEYFANG To: SYSOP (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14579 (CLIPPER) Hi Wolfgang, please send more Information about Cypherpunk(s List), Clipper/PGP and the mailbomb. And what means: ...a very good signal to noise ratio in that list. Sounds interesting. Thanks, Florian. --- MacWoof Eval:13Nov92 * Origin: ThingNetPointBerlin (42:1002/3.4@thing net) Msg#:14975 *INTERSHOP* 05-11-94 18:30:57 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: FLORIAN ZEYFANG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14884 (CLIPPER) PGP stands for Pretty Good Privacy and is a public domain encryption program. Highly recommended for sensitive private communication. The NSA and government law enforcement agencies are a bit nervous about it and are charging Phil Zimmermann (the author of PGP) with export violations (under US law encryption is considered munition and can not be exported without government consent). The Al Gore Superhighway gang is now putting pressure on the industry to accept _their_ idea of privacy: the Clipper chip. This chip allows law enforcement agents to "listen in" through a backdoor. Pretty stupid idea. Hardware manufacturers are barking at the plan because they fear for their export markets and nobody believes that real criminals are dumb enough to use Clipper equipped computers to conduct their business on. > And what means: ...a very good signal to noise ratio in that list. Signal to noise ratio is the relationship of redundance (noise) to useful information (signal). A term originally used in radio technology, now frequently applied to online discourse. It is also a favorite term of the Secretary General in the Fine Arts Forum. He claims to have installed a signal to noise ratio meter and messages are now routinely dumped when more than 6 red noise LEDs are blinking. Msg#:15055 *INTERSHOP* 05-13-94 01:55:56 From: RAINER GANAHL To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 14975 (CLIPPER) I wish he would be more active in this (in regard to the red lights in his district) Msg#:15090 *INTERSHOP* 05-13-94 14:06:43 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15055 (CLIPPER) > I wish he would be more active in this (in regard to the red lights > in his district) I agree. The Secy has been way too lenient recently. I think he should tune his noise meter and make it a tad more sensitive. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:14794 *INTERSHOP* 05-09-94 00:20:21 From: ED GRANT To: ALL Subj: PRIVACY Interesting editorial in todays New York Times by David Gelernter (associate professor of computer science at Yale). The basic gist of his column was that Digital Telephony and Communications Privacy Improvement Act is good and should be passed. This bill includes ways to ensure the governments ability to wiretap digital information and to some extent the Clipper chip (see Cypherpunks in the Lists section). In support of government access to private information he states, "But in itself the right to privacy is no argument at all." Excuse me? Further, he goes on, "Whether the proposed legislation constitutes a potential invasion of privacy is immaterial. The question is, Is that a justifiable invasion? Experience suggests that is eminently justifiable." He does not give examples of this experience. While this may be a simplistic idea, is it not a widely held believe that eveytime we allow basic freedoms to be chipped away, it is next to impossible to get them back? It seems that Mr. Gelernter is afraid that if net users are alowed to use their own forms of encryption, there will be total anarchy (he cites terrorism as one of the reasons the feds should get into our e-mail). If the clipper chip comes to be, it will be another bad day for residents in the land of the free, right up there with Zero Tolerance and Probable Cause. Government has yet to prove itself to be acting in an just and moral fashion, so why on gods earth should they be trusted with this. Near the end of his piece, Mr. Gelernter mentions that he was the victem of a mailbombing, from which he suffered serious injury, but asks you not to take him as a "special pleader". From his experience, I'm suprised that he isn't calling for the Postal Servie to only handle post-cards. I also question why he included this piece of personal history if we are meant to disregard it. "Civilized life is a compromise,..." he states early on. And yes, to a point, I would agree. But being an American is about protecting our rights, OUR RIGHTS AS INDIVIDUALS FROM THE STATE. While I conceed we are not nearly as free as we belive (or as the government wants us to think we are), that is no reason to roll over and play dead. And don't fool yourself, everything from the NEA to drug testing to A CATCHER IN THE RYE in a jr. high school library to your e-mail, its all connected. Msg#:14817 *INTERSHOP* 05-09-94 02:40:00 From: JOHN DUNN To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: RE: ROUNDTABLE: NOMADS:COMMUNITIES JS> however, to deny the fact that online communities exist, and that they Maybe the E-mail systems have brought the question of communities, in an acute form, to the fore, whereas in the past this word was rarely used. Now it is used for so many different things that it has suffered a total loss of meaning. I think the thread title points this out. There are spiritual communities, business communities, social workers' communities, political communities, ethnic communties, art communities, sport communties, literature communities, workers'communities, erotic communties, drug communties, music communites, tourist communities, physicians'communities, farmers'communities, nature-lovers communities, family communities, dance communites, actors communities, car communities, surfers communities, sailor communities, flyer communities, epicurean communities, party communites, architecture communities, journalistic communites, astrology communities, science communities, psychology communites, anthropology communities, archaeology communites, science fiction communities, film communities, history communities, insurance agent communities, military communities, criminal communities, collectors' communities, social communities, handicapp communities, teachers' communities, childrens' communities(although these are rare and not nearly strong enough((my personal predjudice for more childrens' rights)) ), advertising communities, national communities(the stupidest of all), game players'communites, health communities, geriatics communites, international communities(the best of them all), womens' communities, mens' communities, fashion communities, and many more. --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Intershop from THE THING DUESSELDORF (42:1002/2.0) Msg#:15045 *INTERSHOP* 05-13-94 00:37:48 From: ED GRANT To: ALL Subj: WNYC I don't fully mean this for Blast (sorry Jordan) but it seems like the best place to bitch. While I have problems with NPR, they are far less than the problems I have for commercial radio. Waht are mean little sniviling catholic mayor has planned is fucking horrid. It points to some bad times to come for the cultural community in this shithole city. I guess the mayors idea of good art is Jurrasic Park and Grease. How much bandwidth is left in the met area for a new, noncommercial home for public radio to find a home? NY radio is bad enough already. I just think its bullshit, sacrifice the arts but make sure the thin blue line stays thick. Oh well. Thanks for your time. <*>Replies Msg#:15185 *INTERSHOP* 05-15-94 13:59:08 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15045 (WNYC) keep technological forces in mind...the City is taking a slow walk off the plank, because the concept of "city" is less relevant. In two hundred years, people will say "did you know, there were these things called cities?" and your kids will go "oh dad, don't be a total jerk, we learned that when we jacked into cyberschool today" I got my first taste of the future last week when I heard a CD of computer synthesized Bach, Chopin, etc. The rules that these composers followed were distilled into a program, and a computer composed based on them. For a machine it wasn't too bad (I was expecting unlistenability). We, within the decade, wont need radio per se, because computational devices will act as our in house musician/composers and play whatever we feel like. I cant wait until the Kenny G. machine comes out, myself. Msg#:15481 *INTERSHOP* 05-17-94 21:41:52 From: ED GRANT To: MORGAN GARWOOD (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15185 (WNYC) While a chip Kenny G sets my heart aflutter, its not my point. To soem extent, WNYC plays a role in the cultural environment, theirs is an offering that is a bit varied from the commercial pablum elswhere. Granted, I was spoiled in the Amhrest/Northampton area. Three college stations to choose from, plus a public station. While pirate radio would be a pleasing development, just selling WNYC is stupid. Not to mention, I woiuld miss "NEW SOUNDS" a great deal. But, I guess they would have a chip for that in the consumarocray utopia of the infobahn future. Hope I die first Msg#:15521 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 11:13:04 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15481 (WNYC) Who cares about WNYC? You should be listening to Howard Stern. Msg#:15585 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 19:25:08 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15521 (WNYC) or Dirt Man better yet. He's the low wattage H.S. clone that works the nite shift who from all accounts is utterly immune to any sense of embarassment of himself. Msg#:15630 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 22:42:42 From: ED GRANT To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15521 (WNYC) I do (mostly when I'm doing sheetrocking). Long live the power of the people! And don't forget, the FCC hates Howard. Another case of government trying shut-up dissent (lets not argue quality here). Ice-T did a song a few years back, "Freedom of Speech, Just Whatch What You Say". Well put, no? End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:15059 *INTERSHOP* 05-12-94 23:40:00 From: JOHN DUNN To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: RE: LOW CULTURE: BRAVE NEW WORLD EG> the increase in "unreflective" consumption and production. Over a Take some soma and "have" someone. "Everyone belongs to everyone else." --- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Intershop from THE THING DUESSELDORF (42:1002/2.0) <*>Replies Msg#:15166 *INTERSHOP* 05-15-94 02:09:34 From: ED GRANT To: JOHN DUNN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15059 (RE: LOW CULTURE: BRAVE NEW WORLD) To tell the truth, most of the time I only want to "have" someone. To get physical seems to be the closest thing to a real experiance. Msg#:15183 *INTERSHOP* 05-15-94 13:51:20 From: MORGAN GARWOOD To: JOHN DUNN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15059 (RE: LOW CULTURE: BRAVE NEW WORLD) what's with this parrot poetry, anyway? End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:15370 *INTERSHOP* 05-17-94 01:39:43 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: ALL Subj: SMARTCARD EVER FEEL LIKE YOU'RE BEEING WATCHED? YOU WILL... The Clinton Administration is debating to create a card that every American will need to interact with a Government agency. At the forefront, of all things, the US Postal Service... In the ournal now: Smartcard by Mitch Ratcliffe. <*>Replies Msg#:15486 *INTERSHOP* 05-17-94 22:18:37 From: ED GRANT To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15370 (SMARTCARD) Its all connected. The speed that the feds are moving to control electronic info is amazing. They are using a combination of apathy and ignorance to place controls before anyone knows whats happening. Shit, my folks in VT hardly know how to use a damn computer. Even the language flys over their heads. The Orwellian nature of this is so apparent, the Infosuper Highway is good (but we are going to monitor all of it), Health Care for all (just have a card with all your info) etc..... A few years ago AT&T offered 1.700 numbers, personal phone numbers that can follow you where ever you live, a number for life. Lots of people thought it was cool. Scared the shit out of me. We seem to be blindly running down a path where freedom and privacy are as antiquated as movable type, and we like it. "Happiness is Slavery" Msg#:15505 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 02:55:50 From: RAINER GANAHL To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15370 (SMARTCARD) once again, mister clinton offers his real face: this kind of fake left wing liberals is the worst... his social policy translates into policing the social: (not even the french - the biggest control freaks in europe - could think of such an idea) Msg#:15515 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 08:02:56 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15370 (SMARTCARD) Again, one of the same issues is raised by this development that was raised in the Transactivism symposium. It seems that in order to simply *exist,* it is necessary to be complicit with the many ways in which social activities are monitored. In the context of smartcards -- which are not pipe dreams -- this monitoring will be *built in* to a wide variety of activities. Given the increasing prevalence of these cards as mediators of various social relationships, and given the severe problems they present for privacy, one question becomes: how do we configure a politics that can no longer be oriented soley in terms of resistance? Due to the fact that these cards are *necessary* for social interaction, we effectively *must* use them. But their dynamics are disturbing. So how do we negotiate with these contradictions? How do we occupy a variety of subject positions: complicit, counteractive, collusive? Msg#:15520 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 11:10:01 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15515 (SMARTCARD) These are very important questions, and I totally agree this is the approach to take. I am sick of hearing everyone moaning and panicking about this stuff. Msg#:15575 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 17:50:55 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15515 (SMARTCARD) The question is *how* do you negotiate with the IRS once they automatically monitor your bank account activities, your spending and earning habits, and then tell you, that for your own convenience, you don't need to file a tax return anymore, they will do it all for you and and you don't even need to bother to send a check - they can take care of the transfer themselves. It's not that I am contemplating tax evasion but there is point where I consider this an invasion of privacy. Now, there might be different notions of freedom, but no dude's going to tell me that the discourse of resistance is out when somebody wants to go for my bank account. But this will not be a resistance of protest and refusal, but one of beating these guys at their own game. Encryption, digital cash schemes etc. become more interesting by the day. Msg#:15633 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 23:06:51 From: ED GRANT To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15515 (SMARTCARD) Why do you assume "...that these are *necessary*....and we *must* use them."? Is the futurist technopia a mandated reality? My use of credit cards is voluntary, problematic, but still an act of choice. I am not truly fond of my social security number, but I wasn't around when it came into being. I agree with the need to "configure a politics" to encompass this new and highly unstable area, but I don't want to play dead and accept everything that will allow me to *exist*, Msg#:15641 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 23:23:08 From: ED GRANT To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15520 (SMARTCARD) I don't see a mad rush to burn all our silicon chips and hard drives. While panic might be to strong, concern is justified. The people most active in these issues are small in numbers and reletively priviledged (not to mention very comfortable with technology). The information revolution is being corralled with only the slightest understanding of most people. While I might choose to allow the postal service control of my e-mail (which I'm not) I don't think that access to government services should be dictated by my participation in near total survailence. As it is, state DMV's are being used to enforce libray fines and tree overhang violations...things that have nothing to do with motor vehical operation. I don't want to live in Singapore (and I'm not refering to caning), even if it means that the subways are clean and everyone smiles 'cause they are just so damn happy. I know its comming, but your going to have to drag me kicking and screaming. Panic, no. Bitch and moan, Rant and Rave, yes. And anyway, paranoia is the only healthy mental state. Msg#:15643 *INTERSHOP* 05-18-94 23:44:17 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15520 (SMARTCARD) jordan, one has to be more precise - obviously, some of the smartcards are helpfull and necessairy and don't necessairily go against privacy and mean total monitoring but some are too much.... af course it has to be differentiated, but Idon't understand your pro-plastic euphoria (if I may exagerate a little bit your point)... Msg#:15656 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 08:10:12 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15575 (SMARTCARD) While that is one vision of the future, I'm not sure that the IRS would ever be able to legally transfer money out of my personal account without my knowledge and approval -- although I could be wrong. I wasn't saying that "the discourse of resistance is out." This isn't about trends. I wrote, "how do we configure a politics that can no longer be oriented soley in terms of resistance? " The key word is "solely" (oops, spelled it wrong!). What I'm trying to develop, I think, is the idea that resistance politics is one kind of politics, which has a long history, but that there are -- or might be -- other forms of action that are not specifically oriented as resistance, but which are effective nonetheless. Perhaps this is a kind of resistance of my own against the kind of politics of the 60s especially as played out in the U.S.; a resistance approach that, over time, produced a lot of Yuppies. In a way, it is the ideological failure of *some parts* (not all) of this movement that I am trying to re-work. Msg#:15657 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 08:22:27 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15633 (SMARTCARD) Part of my existence entails attending conferences (I'm off to the Fourth International Conference on Cyberspace today, in fact). Without a credit card, I wouldn't have been able to make my airline reservation, and it would be very difficult to secure accomodations and a rental car without a card. In this way, a credit card is a very necessary part of my life. And with each use, I surrender parts of myself to monitoring. Of course, I could do all of this the old way and use a check, but there is no way that I think I could deal with the cumbersome aspects of this approach. Credit cards are just too easy; or, more appropriately, the information infrastructure of credit space is just too user-friendly for me to *not* use. I could, of course, regard this in a big brother-esque fashion, but I do not. (I'm actually writing a book about some of these issues in which I hope to negotiate more fully with their dynamics.) Msg#:15668 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 11:24:58 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15657 (SMARTCARD) > Without a credit card, I wouldn't have been able to make my airline > reservation, and it would be very difficult to secure accomodations > and a rental car without a card... Of course, I could do all of this the old > way and use a check, but there is no way that I think I could deal > with the cumbersome aspects of this approach. It is very easy to make a reservation without a credit card, and very easy to pay by check to your travel agent, or mail it in to the airlines, or pay at the gate. I choose not to use credit cards at all, and I'm sure many others do, and I have no problem paying by check or cash. I prefer always to deal in cash. I like the feel of money changing hands, the sensuality of it. If we still had a gold standard and could use gold, I would prefer that best of all. To present people with shiny gold coins in exchange for services would make me deliriously happy. Msg#:15669 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 11:28:46 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15575 (SMARTCARD) > The question is *how* do you negotiate with the IRS once they > automatically monitor your bank account activities, your spending > and earning habits, and then tell you, that for your own Your bank account activities are already monitored, as are your spending and earning habits, among countless other things. So what? Msg#:15672 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 11:51:04 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: ED GRANT (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15641 (SMARTCARD) These are very complex issues and bitching and moaning, ranting and raving, accomplishes nothing. What is shocking is not the issues, but your and others' all-too-readiness to fall into your prescribed roles in the picture, like mice in a maze. Pro or con, left or right or whatever, just fall into that slot and march along, brandishing your placards. Better to study the tools and techniques which produce this kind of thinking, this kind of consciousness, which prompt you to become such an unwitting puppet, so eager to rally to a deceptive "resistance" which pushes you back into the very compartments from which you think you want to escape. How mindless, how ineffective, how boring. Msg#:15673 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 11:51:48 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15643 (SMARTCARD) I don't understand what you mean by a "pro-plastic euphoria." Msg#:15764 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 19:10:47 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15669 (SMARTCARD) Jordan, we all know that credit card transactions are monitored and analyzed. What else is new? What's your solution? Back to the Gold standard? Boy, I wish we could turn the clock back to 1913. Pay cash? That's fine when I pick up beer at the local bodega but doesn't help me when I order software from Holland. Look, I can't help it that in the contemporary American liberal consciousness "resistance" is associated either with placard carrying radicals or certain types of artists eager to get a museum show. That is essentially your problem and not a very interesting one either. When I say resistance I mean people who _work_ setting up alternative exchange systems, who protect and secure their communications from the spooks, who develop alternative models to the crumbling nation state (where's Fend when we need him). In short, people with a vision and the will to realize it. Armchair liberal analysis without practice bores the hell out of me. Get yourself a backbone and I'll hand you a wrench! Msg#:15765 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 19:35:34 From: WOLFGANG STAEHLE To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15656 (SMARTCARD) > While that is one vision of the future, I'm not sure that the IRS > would ever be able to legally transfer money out of my personal > account without my knowledge and approval -- although I could be wrong. I would imagine there would be enough opposition from civil liberty organizations to make such a move too costly for any administration. But you never know. In Germany the tax authorities even collect a "church tax" if you belong to either the Catholic or Protestant church. Like income tax, it is automatically deducted from your paycheck. Msg#:15772 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 22:30:47 From: ED GRANT To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15657 (SMARTCARD) I agree, it is very easy. I surrender to it often. But still, it is voluntary. Give me convinence or give me death. That is a rip off of a DEAD KENNEDYS record title, but it applies. How different priorities become through time. Msg#:15776 *INTERSHOP* 05-19-94 22:59:41 From: ED GRANT To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15672 (SMARTCARD) "Maybe the target nowadays is not to discover what we are, but to refuse what we are" Foucault from 'The Subject and Power' Being a gadly may well likely be useless. Then there is the the age old question: Revolution from without or struggle from within. If the problem only included individuals with insider knowledge, I would agree with you. But it doesn't. How supportable is THING's tolerance and advocay of controlled substance intake and tax evasion fit into the world of the SmartCard? Could not this be considered a threat? Un-American? There is a need to develope new discourses and understandings for the information age, no question. But a cops knee in the back still hurts (someone once said). The ones with the most freedom in the new age will understand the tech, use the tech to subvert the system (data pirates et al.) and they will most likely be marginalized. But at least they will have room to move. Msg#:15807 *INTERSHOP* 05-20-94 02:41:17 From: RAINER GANAHL To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15673 (SMARTCARD) smartcards or plastic (isn't the magnetic strip usually on cheap plastic?) shouldn't be seen just in relationship to credit cards - and the discussion seems to only acknowledge credit cards (a book title of the 50th in france was: "roses a credit") - I really want to discuss what happens if - as wolfgang reported of those kind of discussions going on in wahsington - if any interaction with state or parastate institutions demands these cards as a condition sine qua non or as a kind of "driving licence". this is when it starts to really upset me. the credit card: fine (don't I already use it only in order to send some nice messages from the world of leissure and travell to the accountants, imagining them in windowless offices ... ?/I run registered as a student) the social security card: ok (I don't know what it is for, but I was told I need it for banking... let me be ignorant about the interconnectedness of things... ) - but if I need a card for buying stamps that is connected with the rest of my plastic worlds already undermining my existence I would be soon lost.... I would call it the "haussmannisation of private life" - wide avenues are replacing the small meandering streets and pathways in order to controll and access we once used to believe private - aren't there also some parks planned as well? - (like can't I save time by just doing all the airings from a computer?) once more, I would like to be more concrete and cite clinton. I think he is too much inspired and seduced by the models of the once socialist parties run countries in europe: for the americans who don't know: in all european contries, one has always be able to identify with an identification card (this is law) - and in france, one is constantly checked. persons of colour probably up to 3 times a day in paris. every citicen has to report his domicile within 2 weeks or so... this is not a joke... this is daily live in all european states... to me, given the actual situation here in the us, I just get the impression that the clinton administration wants to follow in this direction... and obviously, "housing" today is "plastic dwelling" and "homeless" soon means "cardless" ("plasticless") Msg#:15903 *INTERSHOP* 05-20-94 20:07:06 From: GISELA EHRENFRIED To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15807 (SMARTCARD) > as a kind of "driving licence." In the same cypherpunks list, Senator Patrick Moynahan (sp?) was quoted as having asked whether one needs a driver's licence in order to use a modem... he came across as a total ignorant... but alas!, maybe that's what the supercard business ultimately is. And no more drinking while driving on the "info super highway." Serious! Msg#:15958 *INTERSHOP* 05-21-94 02:35:37 From: RAINER GANAHL To: RAINER GANAHL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15807 (SMARTCARD) driving license for modems / a good idea, our hard drive would appreciate it Msg#:16483 *INTERSHOP* 05-24-94 15:11:06 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: WOLFGANG STAEHLE (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 15764 (SMARTCARD) > When I say resistance I mean people who _work_ setting up > alternative > exchange systems, who protect and secure their communications from > the spooks, > who develop alternative models to the crumbling nation state > (where's Fend when > we need him). In short, people with a vision and the will to > realize it. > Armchair liberal analysis without practice bores the hell out of > me. Get > yourself a backbone and I'll hand you a wrench! This is what we have been trying to get at with the Transactivism symposium: to configure an art and politics which exists between the polarities of theory and activistic practice--that is, one which necessitates an articulation of the interpersonal, negotiatory elements of thought, speech, action, and which opens up new sites of political agency. It is not "you" or "me" from which this politics speaks, but in an informational elsewhere. My point is that we cannot take things for granted in setting up our "alternative exchange systems," otherwise it's like the Transactivism symposium never happened. And it might as well never have, if we're going to continue like this. We must get at structures of iteration which are beyond me-you, us-them, pro-con, left-right, theory-action polarities, if we are to get anywhere. Msg#:16504 *INTERSHOP* 05-24-94 18:56:22 From: GISELA EHRENFRIED To: JORDAN CRANDALL (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16483 (SMARTCARD) > otherwise it's like the Transactivism symposium > never happened. And it might as well never have Jordan, why do you isolate the Transactivism symposium? For example, the necessity for community was actually articulated online TT long before Transactivism. Aren't you trying to define Transactivism or Bioinformatics as something The Thing as a whole is already per se? Msg#:16508 *INTERSHOP* 05-24-94 19:25:51 From: JORDAN CRANDALL To: GISELA EHRENFRIED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16504 (SMARTCARD) You're right, but I was just thinking about it at the time and wanted to be specific. We've talked about these things all over TT, and I don't mean to privilege that symposium--only that it enabled us to focus more seriously on certain issues, taking us closer to a *politics*. It is wholly of The Thing for me, as I have always said, but it is special because it marks a convergence, which introduced some exhilarating possibilities for an art practice as well as a politics, if at the very least to show us the enormous amount of work that needs to be done. Also, this forum is to be a continuance of Transactivism, and I have been looking for a bridge... in the context of this forum, it is my job to sort through it and find one, or several. There are many strings left hanging. I am trying to dig out certain things, and revive the discourse here. End of Replies, add yours(Y/N)? N Msg#:16841 *INTERSHOP* 05-26-94 18:27:47 From: GISELA EHRENFRIED To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: NOMAD NETWORKS PROGRAM Jeffrey, how was the Banff Conference and especially the Nomad Networks Program there? What do you think of the Muntadas' censorship project? A couple of days ago, Mundatas sent us a fax about this project, but the Botschafters were faster than our sysop and uploaded it already (in
ostings). Msg#:16849 *INTERSHOP* 05-26-94 19:54:35 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: GISELA EHRENFRIED (Rcvd) Subj: 4CYBERCONF Actually, I think the Nomad project that you referred to was a residency program. I didn't see any work associated with this program. The events that I attended were the 4th International Conference on Cyberspace and the Art and Virtual Environments Conference. I attended only the first day of the latter -- it was two days long. The three-day 4CyberConf covered a variety of topics, with speakers from disciplines including psychiatry, economics, virtual reality, communications, architecture, and others. In my opinion, there was a dearth of presentations on vr and not enough on the many social effects of information technologies. In some ways, it wasn't a conference on IT, but on VR. Another problem that I had was that much of the discussion was oriented in terms of the future, stressing that we do not yet live in a virtual world, so to speak, which bypassed my belief that we *already* exist in cyberspace, at least to a certain extent. There were some VERY bright spots, one of which was Sandra Braman, who presented a totally intense treatment of economics in and of cyberspace. Among other issues, she stressed the fact that equilibrium economics is no longer a valid model -- if it ever was -- with which to analyze the information economy. I felt very honored when she expressed her appreciation of my own presentation. Other bright spots were Sandy Stone, who presented a very similar version of her talk here at the Drawing Center; Perry Hoberman's Bar Code Hotel, a virtual reality kind of fun house; and Katherine Hayles, who is just plain great. There were some great tense moments, too, especially after a presentation on the rave-esque qualities of cyberspace, and a sociological study of the Banff program in general. Oh, and the weirdest moments were when we would walk outside and see elk only a few yards away. They were apparently very dangerous, and signs were posted everywhere warning not to get too close. I guess it was the New York equivalent of those rat poison postings in subways. <*>Replies Msg#:17486 *INTERSHOP* 05-29-94 18:37:53 From: GISELA EHRENFRIED To: JEFFREY SCHULZ (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 16849 (4CYBERCONF) Your piece at the Blast benefit show is about the fact that virtual reality is already firmly established in our lives - for example, whenever we use ATM machines, we enter personal data into a program that records these activities and evaluates our credibility accordingly. Your offer to the collector is a performance... rollerblading up and down Manhattan, from ATM to ATM using the collector's card for your transactions, which are recorded in data space, but also on printed receipts which trace your whereabouts, which you return as a kind of map to the collector. But why on earth, Jeffrey, did you promise to the collector, that you will only check his balance and not deduct any money??? To the collector, the piece would have gained proportionally in value... and you could have settled payment for the piece right there! Sandy Stone is a fabulous performer, but I think she's on auto repeat mode. Not only did she talk about the "Habitat" virtual environment at Banff/4Cyberconf _and_ at the Drawing Center, NYC, but also last September at the "Electrotecture" symposium (organized by ANY). In her presentations she doesn't really analyze Habitat, no pros or cons, just description. Do you think she has a promo contract? What do you think about the cartoonish interface of Habitat (actually, an answer to this would fit well to the Interface thread in
ine Arts)? What was Braman's presentation about (and all the others that impressed you)? Sorry, lots of questions! Msg#:17536 *INTERSHOP* 05-30-94 10:51:27 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: GISELA EHRENFRIED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17486 (4CYBERCONF) > But why on earth, Jeffrey, did you > promise to > the collector, that you will only check his balance and not deduct > any money??? To the collector, the piece would have gained > proportionally in value... and you could have settled payment for > the piece right there! Yes, I think you're right, and I'm working on ways to incorporate this and other aspects of ATM transactions into other pieces. (I would be happy to involve anyone who is willing to lend me an ATM card and, of course, to buy a piece!) What interests me about checking a balance is twofold: one is that it simply registers a presence in virtual space; and, two, it has a nice connection to surfing which, as you know, I am fond of. What is surfing but constant balance checking? I'll get back to you on your other questions. Msg#:17537 *INTERSHOP* 05-30-94 10:55:13 From: JEFFREY SCHULZ To: GISELA EHRENFRIED (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 17486 (4CYBERCONF) > Your piece at the Blast benefit show is about the fact that > virtual reality > is already firmly established in our lives Actually, it's not about virtual reality, but virtual space.